Episode Transcript

This transcript was AI generated.

00:00:07:23 - 00:00:32:02

Lucy

Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's episode of Mumbition, where we're diving into the stories of working mums who are navigating the exciting yet challenging journey of building their own business from the ground up. Whether they're in the early stages of launching or they're just considering an idea, these women are balancing it all and inspiring us all with their resilience and creativity.

Today, I'm thrilled to have our guest, Tatum Stills, who's the co-founder of Hirey Australia's first online NDIS support worker directory alongside her co-founder Jess, Tatum, is on a mission to streamline the way service providers find and connect with support workers in the aged and disability sectors. Through hirey, service providers can run custom worker searches based on client preferences and skill sets, post unlimited job vacancies, and tap into a targeted pool of candidates, ultimately making the hiring process faster, cheaper, and more efficient. Tatum's journey with Hirey is a really great example of how mums are turning ideas into impactful businesses while juggling family and work. Today, I really want to dive deep into the challenges and triumphs that Tatum has experienced as she's built up Hirey and how she supports the others in her life in the process of creating something really meaningful.

00:01:37:02 - 00:01:40:21

Lucy

Tatum, welcome to Mumbition. We are delighted to have you here.

00:01:40:21 - 00:01:43:21

Tatum

Thanks, Lucy. That was like a fantastic intro.

00:01:43:21 - 00:02:07:09

Lucy

Oh, good. I was so pleased. I'm really excited to have you here. You've been, a member with us over 12 months now. Maybe even two years. And excited to see the development of Hirey. And I know Jess, your wonderful co-founder can't join us today, but we will try and incorporate her as much as we can in the conversation as well. I think it's really interesting to note that a lot more women are starting businesses as a collaboration, with someone else. And as I'm sure we'll get into as we start talking, it's such a sensible way to approach this business kind of world, to do it with someone else.

So the first question I have for you that we love to ask everybody is, could you tell us in a few sentences how your business helps? So who you help and how?

00:02:42:19 - 00:02:52:04

Tatum

Essentially Hirey; our business and as you mentioned, I work alongside my co-founder Jess. Jess is based in Melbourne and I'm based in sunny Perth. That’s our first little challenge that we deal with, but it’s easy to overcome. Essentially what we are doing is connecting workers in a space with service providers looking to hire staff for the participants that they support. So I’m not sure if you’ve ever had a loved one in need of care, it’s quite challenging to find workers, that often fit the bill 110%. And so for providers there is a daily challenge of trying to find the right workers to, provide support to their participants and to what we're doing is making that a lot easier by creating visibility amongst the workforce and facilitating those connections. So it's an online platform that connects service providers and support workers, throughout Australia.

00:03:50:01 - 00:03:55:01

Lucy

Fantastic. What was the what was the ‘why’ behind starting this business?

00:03:55:01 - 00:04:22:03

Tatum

Twofold. Obviously with hirey, and both Jess and I had actually worked in the sector, for the last 15 plus years, and we could see that there was a, just a major issue with trying to find the right support workers for participants, like, on a daily basis. So I think for us as individuals, we'd like to think that we, we feel like we're problem solvers at heart.

You know, we often say there's no such thing as problems, only solutions. And that's something that we learnt many years ago when we first started working together. And, for that reason, I think that's why we wanted to start Hirey, because we felt that there was a key problem that was facing the industry that, we're so heavily involved in and work working on a daily basis.

And so what could we do to solve this problem? And solve for many, many people. And that's how we came up with the concept of Hirey. And then, as two non-tech female founders, we decided to build a tech app. So that's, that's kind of how we landed on that. Yeah. And it's interesting because it took us probably about seven years to come up with the idea. We knew that we wanted to work together. We knew that we wanted to start something together. But just what that business was going to be was the unknown. And we were obviously at one point we met working together. And so then, you know, as time progressed and we changed careers, we changed jobs, etc., we'd always come back to it and that, that concept of working together. But we just couldn't really hit the nail on the head in terms of what it was that we wanted, like what the problem was that we wanted to solve and decide on that idea. And then it was around 2021 that we thought, yeah, this is it. This is actually a really good idea. Let's go.

00:05:52:04 - 00:06:15:10

Lucy

Wow. So that's really curious to me because, you know, I have friends that I talk to, to saying, you know I'd love to work with you. You know you always have a few colleagues that and as you guys did that you really gel with and you've got a similar interest. And I often wonder, you know, how that evolves, but it's obviously just keeping that communication together until the opportunity presents. Did you did you meet regularly to talk through what the idea might be, or did it just kind of come to you?

00:06:21:12 - 00:06:41:18

Tatum

Do you know what? Like, it's interesting, because when we first met, I'd say we were. We were colleagues. That's our first interaction with one another. And we, as our relationship grew and developed, it then became a friendship. So you kind of move from that, you know, purely colleague to that work/ colleague like colleague, friendship zone. And then you're in a friendship zone as well. So I think as we knew that we could work well together on a professional level. We've got similar work ethics. I think we think the same way. But then there's also areas that she's strong in and that, aren’t necessarily my, you know, strong points. And you kind of just put your best foot forward in that regard. But I think, it was a good balance between that friendship, that we found, like we had, areas that we could both really contribute to an add value, and that kind of balanced us out as

00:07:20:12 - 00:07:39:02

Lucy

So good. So can we talk about, The other day, Carrie and I were having a chat to Leanne Faulkner, who is a bit of, specialist when it comes to small business, but she's just done a PhD in mental health for small business owners. And a big part of what she talks about is how you manage the communication in the relationships within your business. And it just strikes me that, you know, as friends running a business and as you say, that evolved, that relationship slowly evolved. Was there anything that you needed to put in place when you started together to keep, I suppose, boundaries or rules around how you were going to run the partnership?

00:07:56:15 - 00:08:25:01

Tatum

In hindsight. When you think, when you ask the questions, you think, oh, they're great conversations that you should have as first time founders or first time going into a business with anyone. I wouldn't say that we intentionally sat down and had such conversations, but we just knew each other really well. So I think from that mental health perspective, as a friend, she could recognize when perhaps I was feeling or sounding a little bit flat. And maybe that's in written communication or, you know, even on the phone, etc.. And vice versa. So you kind of know, okay, in this moment, probably need to be here for her as a friend versus being here as a fellow co-founder. So I think because we knew each other really well, we're able to decipher when those moments need to happen. But I think with the communication, it's a bit of a mix of we're able to obviously have quite serious conversations about business, but then in the same breath, we can switch it up and have a lighthearted conversation on a friendship level. So then, because I think one thing that I was conscious of is not ruining the relationship that we did have. And you want to maintain that because the last thing you want to do is go into business with someone that you consider such a great friend, and then you have a falling out, which is happens. She’s really good with that, I have two small kids at home, when I say small, my 8 year old is giant size. She can gauge that when I’m having a rough day, boys are driving me crazy, what’s going on.

00:09:19:21 - 00:09:21:07

Lucy

Yeah. So important. And I want to get into your boys and, all of that home life and business life in a minute. But I also wanted to just ask you about the geographic difference because obviously as you mentioned in the intro, you're in Perth and she's in Melbourne. So I mean, we're living in this fantastic world now where it doesn't really matter where you know, where we are, we can communicate. But what's kind of how have you set that up for the business that you meet every day online, or how do you balance all of that?

00:10:36:19 - 00:10:43:11

Tatum

I think sometimes that, you know, as bad as it is, like I'll wake up and check my phone and she could be the first person that I text for the day. Sometimes before I’ve even rolled over to say good morning to my husband. Again because there is a 3 hour time difference between us. Sometimes when I’m starting the day, she’s on lunchtime. So I think telephone, is key, communication, phone calls usually on the drive back home from school that’s when I’ll do a check in with her, like a first phone call check in with her. We’ve probably texted prior how ever many times already, but I think text is really important and those regular check in calls through out the day. If we need to jump on video calls we will but I think we don’t have many video calls in a day, mainly just phone calls. The joys of technology, you can still feel so connected with someone while being so far away.

00:10:43:13 - 00:10:45:13

Lucy

Yeah. It's amazing. And like, thank goodness that we're living in this time where it where anything's possible really with that. So that's super interesting. And interesting to have the time difference as well that you're in different parts of your day as well. If we can just touch a bit more now on the, the creation of the business, because this season of the podcast, we're really trying to look at two things, really. You know, the nitty gritty of home and work life, which we'll get to in a second, but also how you take an idea, from the idea to the actual product, because I know we've all had ideas. What was kind of I realized this is probably a complex question, but if you could look back now, what was maybe 1 or 2 things that really moved the needle on being able to get it from that idea to the beginnings of what Hirey is now.

00:12:34:19 - 00:13:04:03

Tatum

I think it's two part. It's timing. Like, you know, everyone's timing is always everything. And we just had to both be in the right space. Professionally. Personally. In a I guess in order to commit to the idea and give it our all. Like I said, we had it was like 7 odd years prior where we were going back and forth and, it probably wasn't the right time for us. And we were still like, teetering with different ideas. So I think it had to be that the timing was one thing. But I think also you have to back yourself, but you have to have people that are willing to back you. And so for Jess and I, we're really lucky that we have two very supportive husbands that were like, go for if you fail, it's okay. But they were never like, you would fail. But like, this is such a great idea. It's going to be a success. You guys just have to really believe in yourselves. And there wasn't that pressure because we put enough pressure on ourselves. On a daily basis, I think, you know, you don't need the external pressure. But for both of us, they both really supportive and I think you can kind of just feel like we have each other.

We have them. We've got this kick ass idea. We can't really fail. And you know what? What is failure like if the idea doesn't if it's not all that it's cracked up to be in our minds, or at least we had to go.

00:14:01:05 - 00:14:03:18

Lucy

Yeah. And. Absolutely. And what about in terms of the. Because you mentioned that you didn't you neither of you have a tech background in particular. So how did you get overcome this part like in that initial phase. Did you bring in expertise.

00:14:25:08 - 00:14:44:03

Tatum

Yeah we had to. That's part of that knowing your strengths. And it's you know, we know I think I know other, startup founders where one has gone and upskilled and learned how to, you know, use different tech tools, etc., and they've built their own and VPNs and whatnot. We just didn't have that. That wasn't a part of our wheelhouse. It's not something that we either of us felt comfortable in, nor that we had the time to devote to. So like, you know what? This is something that we need to outsource. So I think that was a little bit tricky because then you've got to find the right partner. You know, there's just so many things that have to fall into place, but you just do your due diligence and then also pray for the best. And if it doesn’t work, know you can go elsewhere aswell.

00:15:09:01 - 00:15:13:18

Lucy

Yeah. 100%. That's right, and that's right. I mean that's the two edged sword of that. Right. Like there's so many people but then there's so many people. So if you're not the right fit for someone and did you share that role or did one of you, was one of you more involved with, with sourcing that?

00:15:28:01 - 00:15:49:19

Tatum

I'd say probably when we first started, if you were to ask us, we would have said that maybe out of the two of us, I was potentially the more tech savvy one. But it's actually been a beautiful thing to say, just as actually really come into her own in that tech aspect. And she tends to lead a lot of those discussions that we'd have with our developers and whatnot. And it's something that she's good at. It's, you know, again, know your strengths. And when you've got a partnership, you know, where, you can kind of rely on someone versus the other. So I think in that sense, she's really flourished in that regard. And yeah, that's kind of how that’s progressed for us.

00:16:09:10 - 00:16:31:17

Lucy

That's great. Now let's talk about so you've got two boys. Do I hear you say so eight and four. Yeah I have an eight year old boy too. So I, I understand the level of energetics at that at that age. How do you I mean, it's such a big question. How do you manage it all?

But I suppose what I'm interested in drawing out is, you know, people can talk about these things in very generic ways. How they manage things. But I'm really interested to know how you set your time up. Whether you're working in the evenings or the days, if you're working around school hours, like, how does it kind of work in a week of work for you to be able to manage that?

00:16:56:17 - 00:17:20:14

Tatum

So I guess for me recognizing that between 9:00am and 2:15pm when my alarm goes off to pack snacks to take them for after school pick up, that's like go time for me. So I try and take all of my work responsibilities to within, you know, school hours really those times. And then outside of that, like, it's mum life and mum time and wife time. So it's, you know, there are certain times where you know what I think, okay. There are pressing tasks that I just didn't get to finish during the day. When you think about it. 9 - 2 is not that long. And so I think, okay, you know what? Maybe when they go to bed, come like 8:30. I'll jump back on the laptop. But then I'm very conscious of the fact that my husband also works long hours, and he'll then come back home. And then you want to be able to spend time with them as well. So I've kind of made it. It's not so much a habit that I will get on the laptop late at night. It's only if we have something pressing or let's say, if we need to work with our developers and we have to review things and we're working with different time zones, maybe then. Otherwise I just know that between 9 to 230, that's kind of my time. And you just have to just hustle and get it done during those hours and focus. Being really disciplined in those times. I think having really little kids as well, especially the 4 year old that doesn’t understand. The 8 year old understands a little more when I say I have to take this meeting, I have to take this work call. The 4 year old just has zero craps given by him. Jess knows if I’m picking up the kids nothing productive is going to happen when they get in the car, and they just hijack the conversation.

Lucy

Yeah. That's great. And what about when ideas come to you? I don't know if you find this, but I definitely. I mean, I have a similar set up in that I work school hours sometimes a little bit later on the after school care days for me. But then I find, you know, I finish work and then I'll get an idea or I'll think of something.

Does that happen to you? Where do you put your ideas? Like do you use your like, what's a a tech tool that's handy or are you more analog? Do you write things down?

00:19:32:11 - 00:19:33:09

Tatum

The voice notes is really good and I’ll send a voice message to jess and debrief on something I have thought of and say we can discuss it tomorrow. But I think that is something I struggled with in the beginning, because you are working on this new business, it’s all so exciting and you want to spend all the time that you possibly can to devote to this idea, but then at the same breath you have your kids, your family, your responsibilities etc, mouths to feed,  you can’t just say ok I’m going to sit here and work on the business for the whole weekend. And I think I would feel also really guilty because I didn’t want to feel like I was ever letting her down and it wasn’t like a 50/50 effort between the two of us. I think though with that, it was a matter of having those open conversations with her, as in this is how I’m feeling about it, and then just the reassurance that she said don’t ever worry about it, you work when you can. It’s hard, there is a guilt I would feel towards her in the business, but then also the guilt you feel towards the kids, because they want to play or do certain things with you, but then in my head, I get joy out of working on the business and I would like to do that, especially with little boys, they might want to be playing certain games and I’m not necessarily into that, like I don’t want to play Minecraft. I don’t want to get on the iPad and do something or Nintendo DS right now. But as they get older I think you just learn how to deal with those feelings and just recognise that when you thin of balance, you think is there such thing? There are going to be times when your going to give more to one than the other and that’s just how it is.

00:21:43:12 - 00:21:56:04

Lucy

Yeah. Absolutely. Beautifully said. Very, very true. Has AI or any kind of other tech tool played a big role in, in all of this for you, either at home or in the business?

00:21:56:04 - 00:22:16:05

Tatum

You know what I think is like, Jess and I were talking about this the other day, and we feel like there's, like, a real unspoken pressure to use and adopt AI quickly. And we have in there certain elements of the business that we have and where I feel it's worked and then where potentially it hasn't. You know, for example, like, you know, social postings and whatnot. Sometimes it's like, unless you're able to train it to pick up on your brand and your brand voice, some things can just sound really off. And you're like, that's not how we would write. That's not the message that we want to portray. I think now people are also more attuned to knowing like that wasn't written by them versus they've just, you know, pulled that from ChatGPT type of thing.

But definitely, I think we're more open to it and recognizing that, especially in the tech side and the development side, we will incorporate that into future development of the app, whether it be, you know, to code certain things or whether it is, features wise that are more AI driven for the providers and the workers that use the app. They're all interesting conversations that we have, you know, on a regular basis. And then, you know, you take it to your dev team and then you work like you workshop it from there. But, yeah, I think it's interesting. I wouldn't say on a day to day, though, I would use a lot of AI tools to help me manage, like my own life and work life. And maybe there are you know, things that I could probably adopt that would make that easier. But, you know, sometimes you're also just used to.

00:23:34:22 - 00:23:54:00

Lucy

100%. And there's only so much time in your, I mean, space in your brain to be incorporating all this stuff in. But it's so interesting to ask this question because sometimes I think, oh, well, you know, you don't know what you don't know either. Like someone might be using something that's super useful. But yes, thank you for sharing that. I think, the last question I had for you, but then I really would like to open up to you if there's something that you'd like to share that we haven't, if there is something that you could change about the world of small business and entrepreneurship now, you guys have been in it for some time, but specifically through the lens of women. So what would you change for women in this space if you could change anything?

00:24:18:14 - 00:24:49:13

Tatum

Growing up, both Jess and I went to, like, Catholic girls high schools and, integrating like, business knowledge and programs around entrepreneurship into schools. Was it something that was really existent when we were going through schooling? And so then entrepreneurship and things that we maybe could have learned at tertiary level type of thing, it wasn't something that we were necessarily exposed to.

So I think if that was something that was and I'm sure, you know, my kids are only in primary school right now, so I'm, you know, I'm unsure as to kind of what is offered at that high school curriculum level now. But I would like to think that there's more programs and, knowledge in and around entrepreneurship for women in small business to encourage girls into that area post school and to think of it as a viable career option, because, you know, having your own business can be so empowering and so freeing.

You know, ultimately it comes down to like your own measures of success and kind of what you, you know, foresee that to be for yourself. But for me personally, I have found that, you know, being able to be present for my kids and working and doing something meaningful that gives me a sense of purpose personally. And I've found that through business, and having my own business with Jess, where we are answerable just to ourselves and to each other, and you then don't have those external pressures.

And I think that's something that, is such a beautiful and freeing feeling. And so I think if, if that education piece was available to a lot more girls and young women coming up as they explore different career options and whatnot, I think that would be a nice change to see.

00:26:22:16 - 00:26:43:18

Lucy

Such and such an excellent point. Beautifully articulated too. But such an excellent point because I think to what you're saying also is we didn't know it was an option necessarily. I mean unless you'd had parents or, you know, people in your life as a child who had been an entrepreneur or ran their own business, you didn't really understand that it's an option. And particularly for women, I mean, we know that. I think it's the stat still, 50% of women that started small business in Australia are coming out of maternity leave. Like there's a reason, you know, we're choosing this as a path. And I think you're right to know and understand that that's an option really early on from school age will just kind of help tweak your mindset. Have been open that open up. That is a possibility. That's a really excellent point. It's been so lovely chatting with you, Tatum. Is there anything else we've forgotten to talk about? Or something that's important to you and Jess that you'd like to share?

00:27:20:16 - 00:27:40:07

Tatum

I think it's we've kind of been busy at the moment because obviously, you know, we're the, the last few years we've focused on Hirey, but, the last few months in particular, we've kind of started on our second venture together. And so we have, because both of us actually work in the space as auditors within the new space. And so we have all of this knowledge in terms of, when you've got providers who are either looking to become registered as providers or those that are already registered, but looking for assistance with getting ready for their audits, that's kind of turned into another, avenue for us where we're able to provide that value. As I said, you know, we're problem solvers. So it's a problem that many, you know, a businesses have trying to get ready for audits and passing that like certification process. So we've just been super busy as of late, trying to grow Hirey, but then also growing the second business that we're kind of nurturing right now. So, busy times for us. But, you know, it adds variety into our days. It gives us a sense of purpose. And, you know, and you get to kind of work with your best friend every day. You can't really complain.

00:28:33:22 - 00:28:49:03

Lucy

Sounds totally ideal. I'm sure you've inspired many people listening to this. Tatum. Thank you so very much for sharing everything. And if anyone would like to connect with Tatum, you can find her on our member directory. Or you can reach out via the hierarchy channels.

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