Episode Transcript

This transcript was AI generated.

00:00:03:19 - 00:00:27:11

Jodie

Hi, I'm Jodie, I'm the founder of strategic branding agency Tiny Hunter. I am obsessed with the power of brand to grow businesses and that's not, you know, growth hacking or scaling. It's about sustainable growth. And really, it's driven by the fact that I really believe that when businesses thrive, so do the people in them and around them, which is what I'm really passionate about.

00:00:27:11 - 00:00:53:04

Lucy

Hi everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Mumbition the Podcast by Mums and Co. In this new season, we're exploring inspiring stories of working mums building businesses, whether they're just starting out or still considering taking the leap. These women show us how to balance family, passion and entrepreneurship, all while making a meaningful impact. Jodie Davies is a powerhouse when it comes to branding.

She's the founder of the award winning strategic branding agency Tiny Hunter. Jodie is obsessed with the power of brand to create change because when businesses thrive, the people around them thrive too. That's what she firmly believes. When she's not leading Tiny Hunter or consulting with businesses on their brand strategy. You can also find Jodie educating founders on how to adopt a brand led mindset to shape their success. Jodie will be joining us this year as an expert for Mums and Co, and she'll be sharing her very generous expertise in the marketing strategy space and we can't wait to have her on board. So let's get stuck into the conversation with Jodie now.

Jodie, welcome to my ambition. We are delighted to have you here. And even more delighted to have you more involved in mums and co this year. I know that you came on board with us. I think when I first started in 2021, which is a lifetime ago. But we've recently reconnected and I'm excited to get into a bit more about you and the business.

So if we can start with how and who does your business help?

00:02:03:20 - 00:02:23:21

Jodie

What I find is most businesses are really great at their product or service. They put a lot of love and effort into that, but then sometimes they're not so great at projecting that to the market, right. And perception is reality. So if you look like crap, people that haven't worked with you will think that you're crap. That's the reality. So we really work with that Tiny Hunter. You know, bigger businesses, I guess that need to do that transformational work. We get in there, we look at, you know, who they are, who, who the most important customer is, what makes them different, what makes them special, what's going to make them stand out? And then embedding that inside the business.

Because really it should influence everything that they do. And you know, we're lucky. We've worked with many businesses over a long period of time, many different industries. But now I'm at a point where I'm kind of want to take what I've learned over the last 20 years and then take that and start educating small business owners, because I think small business is so hard.

As we know, you wear so many hats, you've got tight budgets, but the same principles that work for big businesses in terms of brand work for smaller businesses as well, which is why I'm very happy to be reconnected and involved with Mums and Co.

00:03:21:15 - 00:03:43:06

Lucy

And we we're really looking forward to having your expertise because that piece of marketing strategy, is something that is not always accessible to people when they're starting a business. It's not something they're budgeted for. It's not something they might not have thought about in any particular sophisticated way. But as you say, it is, it is key to, to growth, really, The other question I had around that was it. Do you have any particular industries that you love working with?

00:03:51:14 - 00:04:03:10

Jodie

That is a tough one. We you know, there's a lot of talk in business that it's really great to niche. And it is I guess because you can be really meaningful to a small group of people. But being creative at heart, we really love we work with a lot of diverse businesses, and I guess in a way that is a superpower in a different way, because it means that we can take learnings from unexpected places and apply them. So no, the answer is no. There's not an industry or anything specific, but I do really love, helping women in business, and that's just a bit of a personal passion.

00:04:28:23 - 00:04:49:21

Lucy

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you're in the right place for that. So this season of the podcast is really focused on women who are at the very beginning of their journey. And indeed, Mums and Co really is there to support anyone who's even considering an idea. We like to be that space where you can feel nurtured and we can connect you with people.

When you first started out, which I didn't write down, the exact numbers be more than eight years ago, would it? How long have you.

00:05:02:13 - 00:05:05:20

Jodie

I launched my first agency when when I was 2002, I've been doing it for over 20 years now. Yes.

00:05:10:02 - 00:05:29:12

Lucy

Yeah. So two decades in this industry. And what an incredible time. You know, the amount of change in those two decades as well, in this space has been extraordinary. But even so, take us back to that time when you had just first started. What do you think would have been good to know at that point?

00:05:29:12 - 00:05:42:04

Jodie

I think a really important learning is understanding or having the right experts in the space that you need it, which is another challenge for small business, because like we said, money is tight and there's example, in the beginning I just did not have the right accountant. And I started to ask questions. You know, I think I was like, don't we need some sort of structure? I was kind of moving from that solopreneur into more, you know, looking at employees, bigger business, that sort of thing. Do I need a company? And, you know, I would like just buy a more expensive car in terms of, you know, managing tax. And I was like, okay, that sounds fun. But also red flag and I made a change and it was one of the best things I did. So I think having the right advice is really important. And also knowing when you where your strengths are. So for me, I work with that business advisor every month we pore over the numbers. What does it mean? What should I do next? How should I make changes? And you know, there's different seasons where you need different help. So I did that for a while, but then after a while, you know, that became second nature and that could kind of drop away. And I would know just to, you know, grab the phone and make a call if there's something really specific I need to know. So I think knowing where your gaps are and when you do need to bring in someone that's a bit more specialised. And I think especially once you get past that beginning phase and, you know, maybe looking at growing, making sure you do tick off finance, HR, you know those those sorts of important things where, you know, you've got to make sure you've got the right advice.

00:07:06:02 - 00:07:27:07

Lucy

100%. And then that's going to shape obviously that shapes the foundation of the business. So as we all know, no matter what we're building, even if its Lego, it's the foundation and something that helps, you know, see you through. So I think it's interesting to journey that you just mentioned about the finance piece in terms of having guidance on that. That's something that, particularly over the last couple of years, has become really, really important, obviously through the lens of the cost of living crisis. Having someone sound who understands the small business world, who can give you that advice, in a meaningful and kind of contextual way is really important. Do you think, when it comes to finances in, in that way, in the structure of the business that, it's important to invest in that in terms of an expert as opposed to, to like a bank.

00:08:02:01 - 00:08:26:13

Jodie

I think it definitely is helpful. And I think, I mean, I guess it's different if you're just starting out. It's just you. I guess there's less risk list at stake. But for me, it was having. Yeah, that accountant that was more of an advisor because you don't just want someone that's passive, right? You want to be proactive, you know, want someone that's going to look at the books at the end of the year and go, things are really bad, by the way. You know, you want someone that's kind of you want to know as real time as possible what's going on and get the right advice that's more proactive. So I know it's a challenge, but I do think if you can get that somewhere in the early phases, it can be really beneficial.

00:08:41:06 - 00:09:12:11

Lucy

Yeah, 100%. Thank you for sharing that. So I'm looking forward to sharing you with the Mums and Co community. This this in this new financial year in terms of marketing strategy but also really looking at ideation. So what makes my idea is my idea going to work. And I think everybody probably nurses in their heart some kind of business idea or a little kind of dream, you know, like if I wasn't doing this, I'd be doing, you know, I'd be creating whatever it is. And I think sometimes that wondering can stop us from moving forward. And at the same time, we need more than just a good idea for it to make us money. So in a broad sense, what would you say to a woman who's nursing an idea at the moment? What are the types of questions she could be asking herself? To kind of edit it through or to sense took it before she progressed.

00:09:39:07 - 00:09:43:11

Jodie

It is tricky. I feel like there's a lot of things that are a little bit chicken and egg, but thinking about your idea and who is it for specifically and then what is the problem that it's going to solve for them? I think that, you know, the ideas that really take flight are the ones where you're solving a pain point that maybe isn't being addressed or isn't being addressed in the way that you're going to address it. So I think they're really important questions to ask yourself. I think talking to as many people as you can about the idea, I guess the right kind of people, you know, if it's an idea that you're launching, you know, for mums, talk to mums obviously. So not just your friends who are going to be like, yeah, that's a great idea. You know, I think there's a difference between what people say and then people getting into action, lots of conversations. And then also I think it's like, what is the smallest way you can start something? Because I think a mistake that people can make is putting in way too much effort creating like this, the big version of what you want to do and then launching it and it not hitting the mark. And that's all time in a way that you could have been spending sort of testing and learning. So I think what is the smallest way that you can start to start seeing some validation?

00:10:57:00 - 00:11:01:22

Lucy

Love that. And was there any process that you undertook when you first started?

00:11:01:22 - 00:11:05:08

Jodie

When I very first started, I think I started very early on. So that's helpful in terms of not having children and mortgages and things like that. So I think that gave me some flexibility. The way I started was really just start small and say yes to everything because I think, you know, a really important part of trying to build a business is having that conviction or belief in what you're doing. But when you're starting out, you know, maybe you don't have that yet, but if you can just take small steps and say, yes. So when I first started out, you know, saying yes to everything that I could, you know, I was probably I was charging while probably way less than I could have, but I was conscious of that.

And it was kind of I decided I just wanted to get as many rungs on the board, build my networks and get myself out there. So I'm not saying everyone should undervalue themselves, but in the beginning, you kind of just need to get that hard work rungs on the board and then see where it can take you, rather than hiding away and then trying to launch with some huge thing.

00:12:04:09 - 00:12:19:21

Lucy

Yes. So that sound advice. Because I think. Yeah. Because I think that's sort of I mean, maybe men do this to. But I think it's in a woman's nature to be like, well, I can't really do it until it's done. Like, I can't really put something in the till. I know everything there is to know about it. I mean, there's such documentation in the, you know, in the job space, like all this stuff about women not applying to jobs above, you know, wherever they are and on the corporate ladder because they feel that they don't know everything about that next thing where a man will come in and go on. I'm like, no, just wing it.

00:12:40:03 - 00:12:50:09

Jodie

100%. It makes me laugh because I mean, like a peer to peer mentoring group with other business owners. And I was talking about something one day because this is ongoing, right? It's not like it goes away one day. And one of the girls in my group said, Jodie, you just need to stop making decisions like you're a mediocre white man and put yourself out there as much as un-PC, but it just really cracked me out. So I just try and think about that sometimes.

00:13:07:01 - 00:13:27:04

Lucy

It's 100% true. There's someone really clever on Instagram. I don't know who you are and I apologise that I can't, but she writes emails like it's a man versus an email. So she shows the email that a woman has written. And then, you know, when we're going to send this like a man, you know, and all the niceties they can at that's very direct.

And obviously it's very tongue in cheek, but the same lessons apply there. I think at some point you just have to back yourself. And the idea and to your point, you kind of need to try it out before you invest too much time and obviously money into it. So that's really, really good advice. What about competition? Like, you know, you're a marketer.

So position is important. It's a part of life. Do you think we have to have a bit of a strategy around that. In terms of looking at competition, how does you handle it in your space? What do you do?

00:14:03:22 - 00:14:18:01

Jodie

Honestly, the industry, I mean, it is brutally competitive. There are thousands of agencies probably just in Surry Hills. So I think it's important to be aware. I think it's important to look at the competition and sort of understand what it is that makes you different or your place in terms of how you're showing up. And then I think it's really but I think you can't overthink it, right? Because if you overthink it, you're going to get into that shiny object syndrome and constantly be changing what you're doing. So I think you've got to figure out who you are. You need to just double down on that. So, you know, in terms of us as an agency where 100, 100% female owned, that's me, but 100% female leadership, 80% female overall. And it can be quite a male dominated industry. And so we kind of shied away from, you know, making too much of a big deal about it. But we were hearing back from clients that we were talking to, oh, it's so nice to have someone be listening to us rather than be being talked at. I thought that was really interesting. And then the other thing is we're working a lot of brands where women control the household spend, for the most part. And so, you know, I guess for us, it has become a bit of a point of difference in a bit of a superpower. So I think, know who you are. Double down on that. Don't get distracted with shiny object syndrome.

I think that is the most important thing, because I think people kind of chop and change what they're doing. It's just like figure out what you're doing, be who you are. You are, copyable. So lean into that. It's really about the depth over the comparison, but I think it's always good to be aware about what's going on in your industry.

00:15:51:17 - 00:16:15:15

Lucy

Yeah, I'd love that advice. And I especially love the point about listening. And, you know, that being a point of difference, it's so true that you can feel that you know, you can obviously you feel you can hear it, but you can definitely feel it in any kind of business interaction, when someone is actually listening to you, as opposed to someone who's coming in with their own agenda and kind of like filtering out anything that doesn't go with that direction. So I think that's really great advice. And I love the line about owning who you are. A lot of the women that are coming through into the community now have had a corporate job or some something like that for a long time, and now they're starting a business. And I think it's important to own, that part of your life, too. That's an expression of your confidence. That was your ambition. You know, you held that down. You know, you grew skills in that, like, that's not nothing. And I think having the belief in yourself that you have then have the courage to jump into something new is also good. And I think owning that is also really important.

00:16:57:08 - 00:17:12:13

Jodie

I think you know all you know that if you've got that background in corporate, I mean, God, there's so many lessons that you've learned there that are transferable. You don't want to discount that. And I think, yeah, it's really I guess you're the melting pot of all your experiences and, and how can you bring that to the table?

00:17:13:03 - 00:17:42:17

Lucy

Yeah. Yes. I love that melting point. But the really good point now, burnout is something that we talk about a lot now, which is a good thing. To have an awareness of that. Obviously as women juggling a business, caring responsibilities, whether that's kids or older parents or in some cases, both, how what would your advice be for women who are, attempting to start something new while balancing these other things? Like making that transition? Is there anything, any advice that you would have for someone at that stage in terms of looking after themselves?

Jodie

Run away! No just kidding.

00:17:52:13 - 00:17:58:06

Lucy

No, no, I don’t say that.

00:17:58:06 - 00:18:23:19

Jodie

It is hard, right? The juggle. I mean, I still haven't figured this out. So I think it's a constant. It's a constant game of tug of war, really, isn't it? I think that one of, I think my first ever business coach said to me, you know, because I had really young kids then and it was like that whole guilt pace, which is really tricky. And she said to me, whatever you are doing, make it count. So if you are at work, make it count and be at work. If you're with the kids, make it count. Be with the kids. If you're at the gym, make it count because she's like going and being in those different places and not making it count is like it's even worse, right? So I think that was really good advice. And I still think about that now. Like it's really about the quality of where you're at and not about the quantity.

00:18:50:21 - 00:19:22:02

Lucy

I think is brilliant advice and so simple. When you think about it. And you've got three kids, right? Yeah. So what's your secret then? Getting this far down the track with a very successful business? Because I really want to get into this a bit more with our community particular our experts tonight, like the types of things that actually work for you and your family is something you'd be happy to share that help with that?

00:19:22:21 - 00:19:38:18

Jodie

Yeah. I love that you’re asking that, because I consume a lot of content. I listen to a lot of podcasts, and you hear people talking about all these wonderful morning routines and all the things that they do to be super primed for their day. And honestly, 99% of them never talk about kids or real life. Probably a lot of them are men, to be honest. But so I think it's really good. I mean, for me, I guess since Covid now we're more of a hybrid work scenario. So two days in the studio and the rest at home, I found that really helpful just in terms of juggling things. My kids, you know, they're 10, 13 and 15 now, and it's kind of funny as they're getting older, I actually feel like I need to be around more rather than less, because it's like those ten years and God knows what's going to happen. I'm a little bit terrified, but I'm trying now to, you know, be around in that sort of 3:00 to six, you know, that kind of afternoon period as well. And I think, I think one of the pros and cons of having your own business is time shifting. Well, and it does depend what business you're in. So I fully acknowledge that. But with me I can time shift when I need to. It's both a blessing and a curse, I think because my husband's in big corporate and he can't like things just happen in his diary. So a lot of the time when push comes to shove, it's, my business, the kind of gets pushed down the pile. It's kind of frustrating. But at the same time, that's also why we do it. So I think you just kind of you got to roll with it. And I think it's just playing Tetris with the diary and really making sure you're scheduling things that matter that aren't just work and family like things like exercise or catching up with friends and things like that. I know it's really annoying advice because people say it and I think, yeah, sure, but exercising really makes a difference for me. I know that if I get too overwhelmed, too in my head, too busy, I'll stop. And then when I do get back to it, I'm like, it actually probably makes me more productive. So I think trying to make sure that you do fit that time in, you know, walk and talk meetings, catching up with friends, all of that's really important.

But, you know, sometimes I joke around with my friends over a wine and we talk about PCR, which is primary carer rage, I don't know if we've made that up or if it came from somewhere else, but at the end of the day, I feel like when push comes to shove, women are carrying that load. They got all the balls in the air. And, you know, sometimes you just do get a little bit frustrated. You got to have a one with a girlfriend and whinge about it.

00:21:54:11 - 00:22:14:12

Lucy

Yeah, I love that. I love all of that advice. And I really also like the that you've mentioned. Thank you for sharing all of those things. The, the, the pretty. Well, you've pretty much got teenagers, 15 year old, but we don't often get into that much. With I think in the past we've talked to women with younger kids, which is totally fine. But now the kids are growing up and I don't think there's enough conversation around that about how I think when we have young kids, we think, oh, when they're older, it'll be so much easier. And, you know, I'll have all my time. I all that's not true.

00:22:30:15 - 00:22:49:00

Jodie

No! I didn’t realise that at all until I hit this period because I was like, God, this is the period where if you're not paying enough attention, things can go off the rails, right? If you're not around. And I actually saw an article the other day online which, you know, I only saw the headlines, but it was about, you know, the whole maternity leave, paternity leave. But actually, you need something like that when they are hitting that teen period to be around more.

00:22:52:23 - 00:22:55:21

Lucy

So this stuff is so interesting. And I think you're absolutely right about the afternoon period being really crucial. I have an I three, nine, an 11 year old. And they're not quite teen pre-teen, probably the older one. But I find that with the afternoon like it's not so it's the mornings, like, dragging them out of bed, you know, whenever they're at school.

But it is that afternoon where things can, you know, they've kind of got their independence, that the younger child doesn't necessarily have any kind of just need to be they need to be seen. I totally agree with that. So yeah. And I think it's really important. I think, you know, in the past we've always talked about having your own business is sort of like the lifestyle business. You know, we chose it because we could fit it into things. But children grow up. It becomes more than that. It's like it is still a lifestyle business, but it's also, yeah, a bit of parent surveillance time with the kids. So thank you for sharing all that. I think and I agree with you not enough people talk about it. And probably because you have to be a bit vulnerable to share what you actually do, doesn't in any way detract from your success. I think it's difficult sometimes for us all to share in that way because we're like, oh, well, you know, it's not it's not always perfect. And it's not parenting isn't..

00:24:14:16 - 00:24:27:16

Jodie

I think I struggle with that sometimes even just with the parenting side of things. You know a lot of people talk about how wonderful it is. But it's like God it's really hard to and I think people don't talk about that enough. Or maybe it's just in my house.

00:24:28:10 - 00:24:46:14

Lucy

Yeah. No, no, no, not all right. And you don't and I agree. And I think, you know, that was in part why I wanted to do this season because I wanted to talk to wonderful women like yourself. And then we are talking to some men, who are doing this, but yeah, like, that's our niche. We are parents in business. So I think it's important to talk about all of the colours of that rainbow. Jodie, thank you so much. Is there anything else you would love to share with us today or. I have forgotten to ask you. That would be really, really lovely to hear you share.

00:25:02:13 - 00:25:22:08

Jodie

The most important thing is just don't wait until it's perfect. I think to start, I think everything that you're doing will evolve. Like, you know, you're of, you know, even who it's for, thing. You're going to figure things out as you go. So just give yourself permission, I guess, to be a bit of a work in progress and then surround yourself with good people. So I think I've got a good, you know, network of, you know, friends who aren't in business. But then business owners and I think it can be a really lonely place. So I think, you know, obviously what you're doing with Mums and Co is brilliant because it gives up a support network.

00:25:35:23 - 00:25:45:07

Lucy

Not that journey. Thank you so very much for coming on today. Where is the best place for someone to find out more about Tiny Hunter? And you obviously.

00:25:45:07 - 00:25:55:10

Jodie

So you can go to my personal website, which is Jodiedevries.com and otherwise. Yep. TinyHunter.com.au to check out the agency.

00:25:55:22 - 00:25:56:11

Lucy

Thank you Jodie.

00:25:59:00 - 00:26:01:00

Jodie

Thanks, Lucy. Always good to catch up.

00:26:04:06 - 00:26:19:16

Carrie

Thanks for listening to today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe via Spotify or Apple Podcast. Mums and Co is a network helping business learning women to start, connect and grow. Join us today at mumsandco.com.au

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